U" Be The Judge, Re: Jurisdiction of the Courts, at Magistrate 22 May 200, Magistrate (Hon) Officer of Public Prosecution (Opp). Defendant (Def)
Court Transcript start at 00:00:00 at 00:00: 31 raised the of matter Jurisdiction:-
Hon. Because, because. if in fact their was going to be a challenge..to ah. .Jurisdiction ..it’s a challenge ..which will take place I would imagine would be in the County Court
Def. I was under the impression it would be the Supreme court
Opp. No
Stopped at 00:0048
Public Jury. Verdict Point first point 1
His Hon. Imagined that it would be in the Country, the Defendant it would be in the Supreme Court, and the OPP disagreed saying No.
Who is right, Now whom to you say is correct
4:1 start typing
and ends at (00:42:45
It will be of interest to note the many letters previouly post to Chief Magistrates and Departments requesting the matter of the Victorian Parliament and the Courts to clarify the qustion for Jurisdiction over the Aboriginal people of Victoria, which still has not been addressed. you may well ask why not,
Wednesday, September 17, 2008
Court day 22 May 2008
Typed Transcript, Hosrham Magistrates’ Court 22 May 2008
As the Office of Public Prosecution, Ms. Raeleene Maxwell after a brief conversation with the Defendant, explained that she would have to get the matter adjourned, as she had been shown evidence that supported the Defendants claim, "no Jurisdiction over aboriginal People" Ms Maxwell requested the adjournment, His honour told her wait and proceed to
engage issues with the defendant, the opening of the court disk recording unfortunately does not include the opening remarks by Ms. Maxwell as starts at:- 00:00:00
OPP. challengers the constitution, and whether or not (int)
Hon. As I understand it ..their is some evidence in the community. ah ah he is the Chief Justice of the of the Aboriginal Embassy
Opp. I’m just finding out those matters ..I was just having a conversation with him. when I was called into court
Hon I don’t know if those matters have really much to do with this
Opp. No
Hon. Because, because. if in fact their was going to be a challenge..to ah. .Jurisdiction ..it’s a challenge ..which will take place I would imagine would be in the County Court
Def. I was under the impression it would be the Supreme court
Opp. No
Hon. No its no.. I notice in your correspondence you refer to fact the issue should be dealt with in the high court... ah ..that not the case, this is state legislation ..that is not the case, this is state legislation, and is not a matter that goes with the commonwealth constitution or it interpretation, there for it doesn't start live in the High Court ..in fact is the constitution doesn't deal with jurisdiction over indigenous persons, .in fact includes indigenous persons that... the Victorian constitution act ..relates to all person in Victoria
Def. My point is that (int)
Hon. taat.. that a point you are entitled to if you like to raise at some stage it seams to me that some thing like that should take place in the County Court not here
Def. I have no objections to that sir but the Victoria constitution does not mention the word aboriginal in any way whatsoever (int)
Hon. right there is nothing to distinguish the origin of one person for another whether male or female whether or regional of what ever race of what ever origin race ...the constitution act gives power to the parliament to enact legislation for good government of all persons in Victoria.
Def. the Victorian constitution acts relates to all the states in 1975 all the Aboriginal affairs were put under the federal government. Victoria the only state that maintains it’s own power since 1975 to make laws for peace order and good government for Aboriginal people, the first constitution was made 1874 and the one we taking about 1975, now the point that have to raise on behalf of a lot people because is doesn't presciently say the aboriginal people. The Australian Constitution will mention the word Aboriginal people, I’m not sure what .. what section it’s under, but is there, but the Victorian Constitution fails to mention the rightful possessors of the people, the aboriginal people (int)
Def. yeap
Hon. nether that nor the constitutions apply ..to any .. persific ..persons described by religion racial origin colour our any other matter they apply equal to all person in Victoria and that is the end the end of the matter
Def Right I (Int)
Def. The point is and I must ask as I am required to get a clarification is if the Constitution covers the aboriginal people (int)
Hon. that why that why it would be properly be ah ah fortified ah ah the it be a benefit to you to raise this issue in the County Court, you follow
Def. well I I...I got a letter here date 1996, the prosecution .. if I could just read it out you like to see it
Hon. I’v I’v read the whole lot ...yes.
Def. it’s.. from the Scrutiny of Acts and Regulations Committee I wrote 26 August 1996,. she apologise for the delay in responding, " I am afraid I am not able to be assistance to you, I am unaware of any act which gives the Victorian Government the power to make laws for peace, order and good government for indigenous people" that was in 1996. your Honour, and what’s happened I’ve kept it very quite, I've ask the Government, if there is any doubt over the law take it back to Parliament to clarify the law, ..(int)
Hon. was that the 26 August I’v got a letter here 8th August
Def. that might be my letter to the her, Regulations Committee
Hon. got one 19th August ...
Def, this is from Scrutiny of Acts and Regulations Committee from them to me at Church Avenue
Hon. Yes this is Church Avenue
Def does that say.. that the point I mean I don’t want people using this point if there done something wrong hurt some one drove a car or punched some one in the heads or something like that, it’s just to do with our natural being, we believe...
Hon. I don’t know if that helps you.. I don’t know if you should repeat that sort of term, because that may undermine your position, you can say what ever you want, I think for the purpose of future issues I don’t think I used that term of acknowledge
Def. I think you advice except sir
Def . I need the prosecution to, as the position that I find myself in.. I am told to ask the prosecution, I need the act that gives the Victorian Government the power to make laws for the Aboriginal people. it’s simple
Hon. that’s thats one .you see your not going to get an act which makes it simple, unfortunately, laws are produce in the terms of statuary which are designed to be confusing, created with great difficulty for those proposed to interpret them. follow
Def. My question with that..has the question of Jurisdiction, can I be put that, I am clear in the mind. with the peoples interest, has the court jurisdiction over the Aboriginal people of Victoria, the Victorian constitution has let me down it can’t be required, the letter I had sent to the committee, in 1996 (int)
Hon. Ive, Ive got to say Mr McDonald, if you argument was successful then the constitution Acts ...would in fact let down the rest of the population of Victoria, (yes) because it would mean ah ah the legislation somehow is able to discriminate between persons in Victoria,. You follow, and that would (yeah) be an unacceptable result
Def. The problem that I’ve got regarding the people, is that they weren't here, the Aboriginals weren’t here, this goes back a long way, you know, and that’s why they never got recognised in the constitution, because the constitution couldn't recognise em (int)
Hon. Mr. McDonald , Lets sort of lexical for a moment, if you take that argument to the extreme, I am sure persons ah with different racial ah religious backgrounds in thoes days, you follow (emm) that is person ..Asian origin ...person of .south American orgin north American origin, you follow (emm) all in Victoria represented at that time (yeah) represented by one person right (yeah) but you got to address that the constitution applies to them, there are Aboriginals is Victoria at that time, (emm) the constitution applies to them, there is no base for differentiate between them (ok then) the application of the legislation achieved by the constitution to any specific person rather it applies to the whole that’s
Def. That’s thats the point, the objective is that the aboriginal people are a nation within side a nation you agree (ok) do you agree with that (Mr McDonald)
Hon. Now Mr.McDomald your not.. not going, your not going to get me involved with (int)
Def. I like to debate that with you..
Hon. Unfortunately Mr. McDonald ah....gone thru this now ah a few to many times (right) so regretfully got to move on for their is other people (unclear) Stop OO:37:07 ends (00:42:45)
Adjourned till 16 October2008 Horsham Magistartes Court
As the Office of Public Prosecution, Ms. Raeleene Maxwell after a brief conversation with the Defendant, explained that she would have to get the matter adjourned, as she had been shown evidence that supported the Defendants claim, "no Jurisdiction over aboriginal People" Ms Maxwell requested the adjournment, His honour told her wait and proceed to
engage issues with the defendant, the opening of the court disk recording unfortunately does not include the opening remarks by Ms. Maxwell as starts at:- 00:00:00
OPP. challengers the constitution, and whether or not (int)
Hon. As I understand it ..their is some evidence in the community. ah ah he is the Chief Justice of the of the Aboriginal Embassy
Opp. I’m just finding out those matters ..I was just having a conversation with him. when I was called into court
Hon I don’t know if those matters have really much to do with this
Opp. No
Hon. Because, because. if in fact their was going to be a challenge..to ah. .Jurisdiction ..it’s a challenge ..which will take place I would imagine would be in the County Court
Def. I was under the impression it would be the Supreme court
Opp. No
Hon. No its no.. I notice in your correspondence you refer to fact the issue should be dealt with in the high court... ah ..that not the case, this is state legislation ..that is not the case, this is state legislation, and is not a matter that goes with the commonwealth constitution or it interpretation, there for it doesn't start live in the High Court ..in fact is the constitution doesn't deal with jurisdiction over indigenous persons, .in fact includes indigenous persons that... the Victorian constitution act ..relates to all person in Victoria
Def. My point is that (int)
Hon. taat.. that a point you are entitled to if you like to raise at some stage it seams to me that some thing like that should take place in the County Court not here
Def. I have no objections to that sir but the Victoria constitution does not mention the word aboriginal in any way whatsoever (int)
Hon. right there is nothing to distinguish the origin of one person for another whether male or female whether or regional of what ever race of what ever origin race ...the constitution act gives power to the parliament to enact legislation for good government of all persons in Victoria.
Def. the Victorian constitution acts relates to all the states in 1975 all the Aboriginal affairs were put under the federal government. Victoria the only state that maintains it’s own power since 1975 to make laws for peace order and good government for Aboriginal people, the first constitution was made 1874 and the one we taking about 1975, now the point that have to raise on behalf of a lot people because is doesn't presciently say the aboriginal people. The Australian Constitution will mention the word Aboriginal people, I’m not sure what .. what section it’s under, but is there, but the Victorian Constitution fails to mention the rightful possessors of the people, the aboriginal people (int)
Def. yeap
Hon. nether that nor the constitutions apply ..to any .. persific ..persons described by religion racial origin colour our any other matter they apply equal to all person in Victoria and that is the end the end of the matter
Def Right I (Int)
Def. The point is and I must ask as I am required to get a clarification is if the Constitution covers the aboriginal people (int)
Hon. that why that why it would be properly be ah ah fortified ah ah the it be a benefit to you to raise this issue in the County Court, you follow
Def. well I I...I got a letter here date 1996, the prosecution .. if I could just read it out you like to see it
Hon. I’v I’v read the whole lot ...yes.
Def. it’s.. from the Scrutiny of Acts and Regulations Committee I wrote 26 August 1996,. she apologise for the delay in responding, " I am afraid I am not able to be assistance to you, I am unaware of any act which gives the Victorian Government the power to make laws for peace, order and good government for indigenous people" that was in 1996. your Honour, and what’s happened I’ve kept it very quite, I've ask the Government, if there is any doubt over the law take it back to Parliament to clarify the law, ..(int)
Hon. was that the 26 August I’v got a letter here 8th August
Def. that might be my letter to the her, Regulations Committee
Hon. got one 19th August ...
Def, this is from Scrutiny of Acts and Regulations Committee from them to me at Church Avenue
Hon. Yes this is Church Avenue
Def does that say.. that the point I mean I don’t want people using this point if there done something wrong hurt some one drove a car or punched some one in the heads or something like that, it’s just to do with our natural being, we believe...
Hon. I don’t know if that helps you.. I don’t know if you should repeat that sort of term, because that may undermine your position, you can say what ever you want, I think for the purpose of future issues I don’t think I used that term of acknowledge
Def. I think you advice except sir
Def . I need the prosecution to, as the position that I find myself in.. I am told to ask the prosecution, I need the act that gives the Victorian Government the power to make laws for the Aboriginal people. it’s simple
Hon. that’s thats one .you see your not going to get an act which makes it simple, unfortunately, laws are produce in the terms of statuary which are designed to be confusing, created with great difficulty for those proposed to interpret them. follow
Def. My question with that..has the question of Jurisdiction, can I be put that, I am clear in the mind. with the peoples interest, has the court jurisdiction over the Aboriginal people of Victoria, the Victorian constitution has let me down it can’t be required, the letter I had sent to the committee, in 1996 (int)
Hon. Ive, Ive got to say Mr McDonald, if you argument was successful then the constitution Acts ...would in fact let down the rest of the population of Victoria, (yes) because it would mean ah ah the legislation somehow is able to discriminate between persons in Victoria,. You follow, and that would (yeah) be an unacceptable result
Def. The problem that I’ve got regarding the people, is that they weren't here, the Aboriginals weren’t here, this goes back a long way, you know, and that’s why they never got recognised in the constitution, because the constitution couldn't recognise em (int)
Hon. Mr. McDonald , Lets sort of lexical for a moment, if you take that argument to the extreme, I am sure persons ah with different racial ah religious backgrounds in thoes days, you follow (emm) that is person ..Asian origin ...person of .south American orgin north American origin, you follow (emm) all in Victoria represented at that time (yeah) represented by one person right (yeah) but you got to address that the constitution applies to them, there are Aboriginals is Victoria at that time, (emm) the constitution applies to them, there is no base for differentiate between them (ok then) the application of the legislation achieved by the constitution to any specific person rather it applies to the whole that’s
Def. That’s thats the point, the objective is that the aboriginal people are a nation within side a nation you agree (ok) do you agree with that (Mr McDonald)
Hon. Now Mr.McDomald your not.. not going, your not going to get me involved with (int)
Def. I like to debate that with you..
Hon. Unfortunately Mr. McDonald ah....gone thru this now ah a few to many times (right) so regretfully got to move on for their is other people (unclear) Stop OO:37:07 ends (00:42:45)
Adjourned till 16 October2008 Horsham Magistartes Court
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